tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715558588490121424.post8585481947933148028..comments2014-05-19T09:39:49.794-07:00Comments on Rumba Clave: Rumba Clave: An Illustrated AnalysisRumba Clavehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12900263331918443654noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715558588490121424.post-62250175842259553132014-05-19T09:39:49.794-07:002014-05-19T09:39:49.794-07:00Thanks for sharing this intriguing analysis!
That...Thanks for sharing this intriguing analysis!<br /><br />That fourth note really <i>does</i> stand out, doesn't it?<br /><br />I was wondering whether we could understand its placement better by crossing the in-fours metre (4/4) with the in-threes (12/8). That would produce 48 <i>sub-pulses</i> (each a 1/48th note) to the clave (measure). Along those lines, visual inspection of your samples suggests that the fourth note most often falls about 2/3 of the way through the 10th 1/16th-note, that's at the 29th 1/48th note. And although it's sometimes earlier, it's never as early as the 28th, where the 7th strict written 1/12th note would fall. The closest approach to the strict 7/12 mark is in the track from <i>Clave y Guaguanco</i>, which is anyway remarkably close to the strict 12/8 marks, except for a slight delay in the middle three.<br /><br />But I don't suppose that the musicians are counting 29 or higher! Instead, I think that Mike Spiro's idea of "<i>FIX</i>" - between Four and sIX - that you mentioned makes a lot of sense. [Or should that be "<i>TWEE</i>" - between TWo and thrEE? ;-)] Or perhaps, as Erik Vosmeijer commented, it's a polyrhythm, part of the measure being counted in twos and part in threes.<br /><br />Could I point out that there's a big difference implied by the strict timings in the gap between the 3rd and 4th notes, <i>t34</i>, compared with that between the 4th and 5th, <i>t45</i>? According to strict 4/4, we count <i>t34</i> = 3 and <i>t45</i> = 2 (sixteenths), so their ratio is 3:2; but in strict 12/8, we count <i>t34</i> = 2 and <i>t45</i> = 2 (twelfths), so their ratio is 2:2 = 1:1. Again, visually, most of your samples - except again for the almost strict 12/8 feel of <i>Clave y Guaguanco</i> - it seems to me that the actual ratio of <i>t34</i>:<i>t45</i> is closer to 4:3. These are small numbers that experienced musicians could probably <i>feel</i> quite easily. Here's a simple experiment: Taking some measurements of these intervals from your samples <i>might</i> establish that their ratio falls in a fairly small span about 4:3; certainly it'll almost always be greater than the 1:1 implied by strict 12/8. What do you think of this idea?Yahyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00067784373812199349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715558588490121424.post-1397191802960653042014-04-21T13:03:51.739-07:002014-04-21T13:03:51.739-07:00This is great stuff. I have been listening to rumb...This is great stuff. I have been listening to rumba music for years and trying to figure out in my head exactly what you have so scientifically presented on this page. Great work, and thank you for sharing!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715558588490121424.post-47363926529856578292014-02-01T09:00:56.763-08:002014-02-01T09:00:56.763-08:00Great analysis!
i would recommend to reconsider th...Great analysis!<br />i would recommend to reconsider them using the hypothesis: cubans play polyrhythms so part of the clave would be in 4/4 and part in 6/8.<br />e.g. if you watch some Horacio el negro lessons he says this is what is actually happens, and your analysis seems to support that.<br />regards,<br />ErikAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00535286101059836000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715558588490121424.post-39274814870979860362013-04-18T15:59:04.878-07:002013-04-18T15:59:04.878-07:00Images and clipped restored again, sorry.Images and clipped restored again, sorry.Rumba Clavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12900263331918443654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715558588490121424.post-26687757962669966882013-04-18T12:19:26.884-07:002013-04-18T12:19:26.884-07:00hello james,
a few years ago i read your analysis ...hello james,<br />a few years ago i read your analysis very interested, now i would like to read it again, but there are no images and music examples anymore- is ist possible to restore them again?<br />thanx for your great comments about the rumba -clave!andrenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715558588490121424.post-50766327484171990802011-11-22T20:33:41.978-08:002011-11-22T20:33:41.978-08:00Your graphic work and analysis are much appreciate...Your graphic work and analysis are much appreciated!2amusehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11962745494991672399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715558588490121424.post-38712454933865881862011-11-21T09:41:55.274-08:002011-11-21T09:41:55.274-08:00>Curious, what program are you using to generat...>Curious, what program are you using to generate these illustrations? <br /><br />I opened a track in Sound Studio (Mac) to see the waveform (of a little more than one-clave in length), took a screenshot, opened that up in Photoshop (where I'd already created a transparent template layer containing the grid and markings) and put the screenshot in as a layer underneath. There are some more details with getting the initial waveform screenshot done at a specific size, but that's basically what I did.Rumba Clavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12900263331918443654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715558588490121424.post-3782558685070741172011-11-20T08:17:35.386-08:002011-11-20T08:17:35.386-08:00These are great, very helpful, especially after re...These are great, very helpful, especially after reading Michael's great book.<br /><br />Curious, what program are you using to generate these illustrations? Thx, Ray2amusehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11962745494991672399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715558588490121424.post-70175546759016699892011-11-14T08:28:16.086-08:002011-11-14T08:28:16.086-08:00Images and clips restored.
~ JamesImages and clips restored.<br /><br />~ JamesRumba Clavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12900263331918443654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715558588490121424.post-71309358325007231512011-11-13T23:58:52.302-08:002011-11-13T23:58:52.302-08:00Your images are inaccessible. Can you upload them ...Your images are inaccessible. Can you upload them to flickr or somewhere else so we can still see the analysis?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715558588490121424.post-902427335963082482010-06-23T23:25:00.773-07:002010-06-23T23:25:00.773-07:00Nice work James! It's nice to see it laid out ...Nice work James! It's nice to see it laid out that way. Now I just gotta learn how to play it...Niconoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715558588490121424.post-90968638210119070862010-06-06T16:35:03.189-07:002010-06-06T16:35:03.189-07:00Thank you! Excellent info, something that can'...Thank you! Excellent info, something that can't be found in books. This shows how misleading are all efforts to note down Afro-Cuban music in western notation. Trust your ears! Play how you feel it, not how the metronome tells you. For me it's those small timing issues that give the music its soul.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715558588490121424.post-69829400082691996712008-10-28T05:22:00.000-07:002008-10-28T05:22:00.000-07:00Thanks for you efforts, hope to see more from you ...Thanks for you efforts, hope to see more from you on this subject.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715558588490121424.post-41932384569263186612008-05-29T21:31:00.000-07:002008-05-29T21:31:00.000-07:00I wanted to add that I'd be really curious to see ...I wanted to add that I'd be really curious to see a similar breakdown for 6/8 bell.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715558588490121424.post-9152458600171283492008-05-26T11:37:00.000-07:002008-05-26T11:37:00.000-07:00Wow. This is just what I needed. Incredibly eye-...Wow. This is just what I needed. Incredibly eye-opening. I've often been confused by my teacher's clave timing, since it doesn't fall precisely on the 4/4 meter. Now I have a better appreciation of the feel and style.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715558588490121424.post-15430454185074593682008-01-22T06:11:00.000-08:002008-01-22T06:11:00.000-08:00this is great stuff - very interesting. Its diffic...this is great stuff - very interesting. Its difficult, though to get a good idea of how much difference is due to individual style and how much to random variation. If a few bars from the same song were there we could see whether the players are just randomly wavering away from exact time rather than playing with a particular feel.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com